Ava "Twee" Williams

MATTIE STEVENS: Okay. So you can start talking. First I need to know your name, full name.

AVA “TWEE” WILLIAMS: My name is Ava Williams. You can call me Twee. I’m Bertha Parker’s [sp?] second daughter.

MS: Okay. All right. And you had—? How many children did she—?

AW: I had four, and she delivered all four of ’em. I had ’em from ’61—no—’55, ’57, ’59, and ’61.

MS: Okay, give me their names.

AW: My older one, Essie [sp?], she born ’55. The second one, Barbara [sp?], she born ’57. My third one was Isaac [sp?], named after my daddy. He born ’59. August [sp?] was the baby. He born in ’61.

MS: Okay. Now, did you give me his name? All of their names.

AW: Uh-huh.

MS: Okay, okay. All right, I’m getting— 00:01:00That looks good back there. That looks good.

AW: And she deliver every one of ’em.

MS: Did sh— AW: I had the first one, it took me 24 hours, and she told me if I was anybody else child she would let me go. [Laughter.] I gave her a hard time with the first one, but the rest of them come on out, like, okay. But me, my sister had kid—my sister, she older than I am. You know she did. Mama delivered all of hers but one. She had five. I had four; she had five. She deliver Bernice [sp?] and Iffy [sp?]. [inaudible].

MS: Can I turn that down?

AW: [inaudible] I know December 22nd, but I don’t know.

MS: Can I turn that down? ’Cause that’s going to be on the tape.

AW: Okay, wait a minute. Oh, I’m sorry, [inaudible].

MS: Okay. So you probably will have to tell me again 00:02:00what— [Laughs.] AW: Okay, okay, I go over it. And she deliver her first one, her second, the third one—I’m trying to think which one were breech. Had to go to the hospital deliver, ’cause he was—foot were comin’ first. But the rest of ’em, she deliver all five, all the rest of ’em. She had four.

MS: Okay, that was the oldest daughter.

AW: Oldest one was Bernice. Next one was Lana [sp?], Lana, and the next one was Eddie [sp?]. That’s the one she had to go to the hospital with, Eddie James [sp?], the third kid. Mama had to get Dr. Hayward [sp?] to help deliver that one. And Albert [sp?], Albert James [sp?]. She deliver Albert James in ’57, ’cause [inaudible]. He was born May the second, 1957. 00:03:00Then she deliver Glostine [sp?]. Her birthday tomorrow, March the 17. Her birthday is 1960. And she did not deliver any her grandchildren, her great-grandchildren.

MS: Her great-grands. Okay. Did she deliver any of your children?

AW: She deliver— I’m tryin’ to think. Yeah, she deliver all mine, all four of mine.

MS: All four of yours. Okay.

AW: All four [inaudible], and then she deliver our children children.

MS: Oh, okay.

AW: See where I’m comin’ from? She didn’t deliver any of those.

MS: Right, so— AW: Because at the time they were having baby, Mama—we had get ready. She was in the car accident, ’cause, like, they were born to Mama, and Mama [inaudible] were goin’ to Memphis, and Mama had a car wreck. She broke her pelvic [ph] bone. Mama slowed down from bein’ midwife, ’cause the older 00:04:00one was born in 1995. There was— Yes, she did. She delivered one. She deliver Melba Lewis [sp?]. She deliver Bernice first one. Bernice first one. She deliver her first great-grandkid, Bernice first, called Melba Lewis. Now, Bernice were 14 years old when she had her. But the rest of ’em all were born University Hospital.

MS: Okay. So now I need, since the television was on and— AW: Mine again?

MS: Yeah. [Laughs.] AW: Okay, I’m sorry. Okay. My name is Ava, and I have four kid, and Mama deliver all four of ’em. I had my first in 1955; her name is Essie. I had my second one in 1957; her name is Barbara, B-A-R-B-A-R-A. And the third one, Lonnie [sp?], named after my daddy; he born ’59. I had my baby, Otis [sp?]; he born in ’61, January. But 00:05:00she did not deliver any of her—she deliver only two of her great-grandchildren, ’cause there so many of ’em.

MS: Okay. And what about— AW: But she used to have baby at her house, and she slowed down in ’85, ’85 or ’86—I’m trying to think—when she had her accident, because she broke both her pelvic [ph] bone, and she start slowin’ down with midwife, but she went with another midwife to help them out, She was helping Ms. Sadie Colman [sp?] out, Virginia Powell [sp?]. She used to work with them two. They would call her to come and help her, and they would help her. They would help her. She would help them out, because she wasn’t able to stand up or do no pushing, or they couldn’t let nobody push on her because both her pelvic [ph] bone were broke.

MS: Yeah, I remember when they had that 00:06:00 accident.

AW: Accident.

MS: My mama was in that car.

AW: Uh-huh, ’cause they were going to see your sister, [laughter] at that time [inaudible], and they were separated. They were tryin’ to bring [inaudible] back together. That what they goin’ for. They going to [inaudible]. Tisha [sp?]!

MS: Oh, there’s a pretty girl.

AW: That’s a great-great-great-grandbaby.

MS: That’s a great-grand? Okay.

AW: [inaudible] this awesome [ph] baby.

MS: Okay, say hello there.

AW: Tell, say hello.

MS: Pretty girl.

AW: Tell what your name.

MS: Yes.

F: [inaudible].

AW: She didn’t hear you. Tell.

F: [inaudible].

MS: Ida Mae?

AW: Allison [sp?].

MS: Allison? Oh, beautiful, okay. All right. I got you on video.

AW: But anyway, Mama had so many. You know, she’d have ’em at her house. Oo-wee, we have sometimes two in a bed, ’cause Mary Lee [sp?] and I got one born the same day. Mama walk from my house to Mary Lee house, and that was Bobby [sp?]. And Mary Lee had Marvin [sp?]. So 00:07:00Mama had baby, she [inaudible]—you know, Mama have— Ooh, I wish I can find that paper.

MS: You can look for it and then get— AW: Unh-uh [negative], my mind ain’t separated [ph]. I’m gon find [inaudible] I got so many [ph]—I throw so many obituary— MS: When you’re not lookin’ for— AW: I hope I didn’t throw away them with the obituary.

MS: Yeah, when you’re not lookin’ for it you’ll find it.

AW: [inaudible] come in my face.

MS: Uh-huh [affirmative]. Now hers, you misplaced hers too, right?

AW: What?

MS: Your mama’s.

AW: Uh-huh [affirmative]. And I said I [inaudible], but she don’t have not one child took after her. Not even her grandchild take after her. Not either one of my kids a nurse.

MS: Really?

AW: Yes, it were. Bernice did take after Mama. She did be a nurse, ’cause she’s working in that children ward in University Hospital for 15 years, uh-huh [affirmative], ’fore she left, went Chicago, and she still work with children when she went Chicago. But now they ain’t work with midwife. They work after 00:08:00baby was born.

MS: Uh-huh [affirmative], as nurses.

AW: Uh-huh. And I didn’t work with no midwife, and [inaudible] didn’t work with no midwife. Other than that.

MS: So someone was telling me that your mama had another house before she— AW: She did! When we left Madison, 1949, we moved here in Tougaloo in ’50. Where the— Ooh, that nice Hilton Hotel?

MS: Yeah.

AW: That used to be [inaudible] her house. It wasn’t no street there. Think there were woods. See, they were in the wood. And we moved down there. Then, when the highway bought there, then she moved down here next right there right next to ’em. ’Cause when she moved I was staying in the house right there, in Minnie [sp?] house, and then Mama moved [inaudible] her house. Minnie was here. 00:09:00Mama house was on top of the hill, exactly where— On top of [ph] where that bridge at, right on the highway right there, where her house used to sit, uh-huh [affirmative].

MS: Oh, okay. And did she take— AW: We moved to Tougaloo in 1950.

MS: Okay, and did she take patients to that house?

AW: Oh yeah, ’cause that’s one reason she start taking patients, ’cause she didn’t have no car, she couldn’t learn how to drive. When she moved out here, Mama Minnie learn her how to drive. Mama Minnie took her with—I don’t know why we call her Mama Minnie, don’t ask me why we call Aunt Minnie Mama Minnie, but that’s a auntie. Aunt Minnie is Mama’s sister, but we call her Mama Minnie. I don’t know why we said that or why did we— MS: Her children called her Mama Minnie.

AW: Her children call her Mama Minnie, but we know that was our Aunt Minnie. We was older than her children, me and [inaudible] was older than her children, but yet we called her Mama Minnie. But she learn Mama ow to drive. She learn Mama. Then I bought Mama first car, station wagon. Then Mama 00:10:00started working, let the midwife [inaudible] she did. She started working [inaudible] store, ’cause she wasn’t able to do all that work. Then she left the [inaudible] store. Then she started having patient at her house. And then she had a patient in the house, and then that mean [ph] Bea and my sister, we had to go over there and help, ’cause sometimes she would have three, two in a bed sometimes. Two in a bed. Every room filled. So that means we had to go—and we didn’t deliver no baby now; we go in and help clean up.

MS: And that’s over here, this house across the way.

AW: Over to the house she had now, where the house over here now. That’s the house she had. Would have ’em at her house. She only had three bedrooms. Sometimes she had to sleep on the floor. She would give her her bed, and Dad and I [ph] would sleep on the couch, because her bed, she’ll have one—she had two beds in one room, and the rest of the bed, ’cause I was sleeping in there; my children 00:11:00stayed in there. But anyway, she had four to five patients sometimes.

MS: She had a clinic then, didn’t she, at home?

AW: She did, and she wasn’t chargin’. I had the book, too, with the babies she delivered. I would used to keep name for her. But at that time she wasn’t charging. Stay at your house, gettin’ three full meals, a hot bath, tend to your baby at nighttime, you sleep, and they still wouldn’t pay my mama $25 for a whole month.

MS: Really?

AW: She would charge ’em 25, 10 dollar. Mama ain’t never charge nobody $100 in her life.

MS: Wow. Wow.

AW: And they stayed [inaudible] a time [ph]. Uh-huh [affirmative]. And some of ’em right now today, I know they walk around here today [inaudible], and they feel guilty. [Laughter.] They know they do.

MS: But she was blessed, though, because she did— AW: She were blessed. She became a midwife, because she loved midwifing and elder people needing medical care [ph]. Mama loved elder, 00:12:00and after she stop midwife then she start goin’ to nursin’ homes, just goin’ around, help with Bible [ph]. Then she start picking up chore [ph], helping Bible [ph] her house. Then she started goin’ to nursin’ home, ’cause which she did have cousins down in nursing home, but she’d go in there every day. Every day. Have prayer meeting. But then during the home [ph] she went from Mayhadden [sp?], Alamauden [sp?], and—what was it? She went to three. She had three she always visit, one on Klen [sp?]. I can’t call that. I think it was Klen, K-L-E-N, or somethin’ like that.

MS: Yeah, that sounds right. On North Side Drive.

AW: Uh-huh, uh-huh [affirmative]. But anyway, she’d go there. She’ll go to one. I would get so tired of driving.

MS: [Laughs] ’Cause you had to drive her.

AW: And she even go Star of David [sp?], when they put—at Vicksburg. She started goin’ to Vicksburg, ’cause they had moved our cousin to Vicksburg. ’Cause she got to [inaudible] had a stroke while she was in nursing home, and they move her down there. That’s where 00:13:00she died at, in Vicksburg. Did bring her back, and Mama brought her back back up here. I forgot. I can’t remember. If I could find those two piece of paper and the book I started keepin’ baby for Mama in 1952—I started keeping baby for Mama—I writin’ their name down, but I had that book, too.

MS: Uh-huh [affirmative], and, see, we need to get ahold of that book. [Laughs.] AW: Yeah, I know, but sometime I gave ’em to these grandchildren, and they never—I don’t know did they give back to me or not, ’cause— You know, when you get to them, I only have them pictures that Mama used to have on side the wall. I don’t know who got that. I don’t know. Did Albert James get that? Or Junebug [sp?] got them? You know, Mama had some pictures on side of the wall.

MS: Right. Oh, the fam— Mm-hmm [affirmative].

AW: I couldn’t stand [ph]—all her baby that she deliver, I don’t know who got them picture, because we didn’t get ’em.

MS: Albert James, where does he live 00:14:00 now?

AW: In Kansas City. But he have multiple sclerosis. His worse than mine. And he beyond [ph]—he real bad shape. That why he don’t come home now. But he can remember some things he remember, and then sometimes he can’t come to himself. Mm-hmm [affirmative]. But I’m gonna look for that piece of paper one more time. Not now, because I got three kid, one—Martel [sp?] just took one to see Jesse Jack [sp?].

MS: Uh-huh [affirmative]. Well, now, do you have any pictures here of— AW: Of Mama Bert? Mm-mm [negative]. Only picture I got of Mama Bert— MS: You have an album or anything? Picture album [ph]?

AW: Hold on, give me time.

MS: Okay. [END OF INTERVIEW]