Dr. Lucille Greene

MATTIE STEVENS: Okay.

LUCILLE GREENE: Okay, my name is Lucille Greene, and I really am from Pocahontas, Mississippi. My family, there’s seven of us siblings, and I am the second of those siblings. And all seven of us, as far as I know, was born by a midwife, because back then we didn’t talk about hospital, not even doctor’s office. So all I know is as a young person growing up, and my youngest sister was born, and that was in 1950, and I remember this nice lady comin’ to the house with this nice little bag, and her name was Mrs. Martha Wade [sp?].

MS: Great, great. Now, let me give a little introduction 00:01:00on the interview. Today is February 24th, and we’re at the Family Life Center of the United Central Methodist Church, and I’m doin’ oral history interviews, and the first one will be with Dr. Lucille Greene. Okay, now, you can go back over the one [ph]. [Laughs.] LG: Okay. Yes, my name is Lucille Greene, and I am from a family of seven siblings, and I’m the second of the seven, and come from Pocahontas, Mississippi, and that’s just a little village town north of Jackson—nine miles, to be exact, from Jackson, Mississippi. And I grew up on a farm—cotton fields of Pocahontas, Mississippi is what I tell everybody—and I learned to milk the cows and slop 00:02:00the hogs and all of the above, and pick the cotton, chop the cotton, all of that, because my family—my parents was sharecroppers. And sharecroppers was those folks who worked on the farm, and then, at the end of the year, then they selled up, and the bossman always tellin’ you, “You almost made it, you almost made it.” And what that means, they didn’t make any money, and they would go to the big store, the grocery store, and they could get whatever they wanted. They put it on a bill, and they could do that all year long until the next end of the year, and there’s another crop come, and they would sell up, and usually the same story. And they did this for as long as I can remember. And I do know that I didn’t leave the country until it was in 1960, when I got married, but grew up ridin’ the school bus to school. Walked to school when I was in elementary school, but there was no school bus. We walked. And 00:03:00it was interesting how we walked to school, and the school bus would pass us with the white children on it. We didn’t understand that, but I understand that it’s racism. That was back then, but it was a way of life with us. Nobody ever complained; it was just what you did. And so after eighth grade, then we were able to ride the school bus to Clinton, Mississippi, from Pocahontas to Clinton, Mississippi. That was [inaudible] go to high school, Sumner Hill High School, Clinton, Mississippi, and that’s where I graduated from high school, in 1959. And I got married in 1960, and then we had this family.

But then I grown up, we all ways brought into the world by the midwife. And there were two midwives that I remember, and one, we called her Aunt Catherine Forbes [ph?]; she was really a relative that we learned. But then the other one was Martha Wade, and she was the midwife that I know delivered my 00:04:00youngest sister. That was in 1950. And, you know, they would tell us that the babies came in this sack, and, I mean, a little nosy girl, and I never forget on that particular morning I had me a little peephole, and I saw this little lady come in, and she had this bag, and then, you know—and I heard this baby cry. She didn’t come outta that bag. And then I got nosy, ’cause I wanted to know how the children come. So I got nosy and started learning that it was you carried that baby, and for after those nine months the baby was delivered by a doctor or by a midwife, and during our time, in that particular time, it was midwife. And I think that as far as my mom said that the one who delivered me, her name was Aunt Catherine Forbes, and she was related to us. And so I didn’t ever know her, but that’s what Mama tell us about Aunt Catherine.

So 00:05:00that’s what I know about midwives, and I just know back during that time that it must’ve been a good job, because all of Mother’s children were delivered, and they were healthy babies. Nobody was deformed in any way, and they were well cared for. And so we don’t know anything about deformed children back then, as far as with our family, because all seven of us, and me, we are still here today, and we were delivered by midwives. And so those midwives must’ve been mighty well trained, because they knew their craft, and they took care of those babies. So that’s what I really know about being midwife. But as far as being with my four children, we were able to go to the hospital and have doctors, so didn’t have that experience with delivery. But it was really wonderful during that time, because my mother was a hardworking mother, and made good provisions 00:06:00for us, and, really, most of this was done during—because my mother and father separated when I was five years old, so Mother was the mother that did everything and took care of us. So when I tell people, even today, I couldn’t really tell anybody about being hungry, because I never was hungry. We had plenty to eat, even if it was just some milk and bread, but it was what we wanted to eat. And we didn’t eat milk and bread just because that was all we had to eat; we ate that because that was what we wanted to eat. So she was really a wonderful provider, with the help of an uncle that we had, and I called him Uncle Red [sp?], and he was my mother’s youngest brother, but they always lived close together, and they farmed together. They would have a big farm, and we would all work in the field, and work in 00:07:00the field on Saturday because we wanted to go to school, so we had to spend our Saturdays workin’ in the field in order to be able to go to school during the week. And we came from school, we knew we had to go to the field, and that was just the way of life. Nobody complained. We just did what we’re supposed to do, and we studied hard, and I really did study hard in school, because I knew I never wanted to be a farmer, and I knew I had to learn a lot, I had to get all the education I could get, so that I wouldn’t have to be workin’ in no cotton fields, and pickin’ cotton, and choppin’ cotton. I wanted to be able to do somethin’ different, so that’s the reason why I worked hard and learned everything I could learn, and I still am learning today.

But it is just a privilege to even have the opportunity to talk about the history of the midwives, because it was special, and they were needed back then, because people didn’t have money. They didn’t have insurance. They didn’t even know what that was. So it was wonderful that the Lord had equipped these women to be 00:08:00able to do their job, and be able to really save lives, because that’s what they did, because if they had no what they do [ph], many people would have died in childbirth, and I heard about people even dyin’ in childbirth. But I’m so thankful that that did not happen to our mom, and she was able to live, and live until she was 88 years old. So she was really a strong mother. So it is a wonderful thing, and that people are gathering this information, and not letting it lay dormant, because this is real history that actually occurred back then, because our people needed somebody that was gonna be there to help and assist with their needs, and that’s what these midwives did. And we are thankful that God equipped them with the knowledge, the knowhow, the skills to be able to do that. And I’m so thankful that they’re doin’ this program so that people can be informed, because there’s a lot of things that our young people don’t even understand. They probably don’t even know what a midwife is. And so I think this 00:09:00will be wonderful for them to learn, what happened, took place back then, and how important it is for you to know your history, because if you don’t know your history you tend to repeat it. And I thank you so very much.

MS: Very good. Well, I still want to know some more. Now, tell me: you’re the oldest child, right?

LG: I’m the second oldest, second of seven, yes.

MS: Okay. Okay, so would you have been old enough to maybe know about any other midwife in the area?

LG: But those was the only two that I really knew about, and that was because Mom shared it, and so I didn’t know any others.

MS: Okay. And that second one was Aunt— LG: Aunt Catherine Forbes, F-O-R-B-E.

MS: Okay. Okay, and— LG: The first one was Martha Wade, W-A-D-E, okay. Yeah, 00:10:00and so that’s what I really remember, ’cause— MS: And that’s Madison County, right?

LG: That was in Madison County. Yeah, that was.

MS: Okay. And they would’ve been working in about what years, would you say?

LG: Well, I know in 1950 is when my youngest sister was born, so then I was born in 1940, and so my oldest sister was born in 1939, so all of us were delivered by midwives, so my oldest sister was 1939, I was 1940, and my next sister was ’43, and my other one ’45, and ’47, and ’49, my brother. And so I know all of those years that my siblings came, so they was working during that time, so there was no hospitals, and Mother—that’s the way of life. I remember there were clinics. It was interesting. There were clinics, and I remember that, that 00:11:00there were clinics that people—I guess the County, that they had those clinics, and that’s what I do remember, that the Blacks had the clinics, and, you know, it wasn’t every day, but it just was sometime that they were able to go to the clinic.

MS: Yeah. Okay, okay. Tell me about church in the area— LG: Church? Oh, gosh.

MS: —and your whole life, right on up to now. [Laughs.] LG: Oh, wow. In church—we walked to church. It was so interesting, because we would walk to church, and it wasn’t no short distance, and when weather was pretty, you know, we’d walk without our shoes on, and carry our shoes in our hands, and then we had a towel in our bag that we’d clean our feet before you got in church. And that was real, because there was no transportation. You would walk to church. And we went to church mostly every Sunday. But then what I liked about church, though, during that time 00:12:00they had—what they call? They call it tractor meet, and it was really the thing [ph] called a revival now, but it was tractor meet. And they had three services. Yes, they had the ten o’clock service. Then they have the two o’clock service. Then they have the evening service. And then, after the morning service, they had the dinner on the ground, and what we did back then, everybody carried those baskets, and you had dinner on the ground. That was really wonderful. You went and tasted other folks’ food. And my mama was a fabulous cook, and so we were kinda choosy. We didn’t want nobody else’s cooking but hers, because we knew Mama could cook. And so we didn’t much eat other folks’ food; we ate her food. But it was really a wonderful fellowship that we had.

That was really a good time. I often think about it, because I remember those beautiful sermons that the minister would preach, and those hymns that those deacons would sing. And I’ll 00:13:00have to [ph] talk about when we was on the morning specs [ph], how those deacons would get on their knees, and they would pray, and they would actually walk the bench. And I said, oh, yeah, they walked up and down the bench, and they prayed for us. And we were taught that you had to stay down [ph] til you actually felt somethin’. [inaudible] that something was, but that’s what we believed. And so it was really wonderful. And I remember when I joined church, I remember that just like it was yesterday, and it was on a Tuesday night. And this little Black preacher was the preacher. His name was Reverend Winters [sp?], and he was from the Mississippi Delta. And he sang—I remember that song—“I Love the Lord, He Heard My Cry.” And I joined church that particular evening. It was just me. There was a bunch of us on the morning [inaudible], but I joined church that particular—and that was in 1952. 00:14:00And so that’s just somethin’ that stays with me. That song stays with me because it was so significant to me. And I tell people today that anything that’s worthwhile that happens in my life, it’s on a Tuesday. It is somethin’ significant about Tuesdays in my life. God just speaks through me, and His spirit is, like, on a Tuesday. And so it’s so vivid, because I can just remember significant things that occurred, and it was on a Tuesday. And I’m like, wow, what is it, Lord, about Tuesday? But that’s when I first got acquainted with Him. It was on a Tuesday, and it’s still significant to me today. I pay strict attention to things that happen in my life that’s of significant, and 00:15:00I pray, and I ask the Lord let things happen, and I remember the last house that he showed me, it was during Tuesday night, and my prayer to Him, askin’ specifically to show me a house. And it’s like He did exactly what I asked Him to do. So Tuesday is just something very special. And I just believe everybody ought to have a special time that they know that God actually speaks. I had surgery 1992, and it was on a Tuesday. That was breast surgery. And it’s been 26 years this coming March 30th, but that’s what God has done, and that breast cancer was gone, because God—I tell them He healed me on that very time. I 00:16:00say, yeah, He did. I say, He showed me the cancer. He let me know it was cancer. And at that moment, I knew He was healing me of the disease, because He allowed me to discover the lump, and I wasn’t looking for it. So I tell them that my praise is real, because I can truly witness as to what the power of the Holy Spirit does in one’s life, ’cause it’s so real to me. And I just love tellin’ my story, and in tellin’ my story it is my hope that somebody will get a glimpse of what God is, because if He was then, He is still now. And He doesn’t change. We may change, but He never changes. And that’s the beauty of knowing who God is 00:17:00in your life. And that’s my joy. That’s my strength. And I just will tell it as long as He gives me breath in my body.

MS: I understand that you are a minister, right?

LG: Yes, because it’s amazing how God speaks to your life. And, you know, I was always different, and I remember very well my mother said to people, “Well, she was always different.” And I really didn’t know what she was talkin’ about. And I just knew that I was different, because I couldn’t do what other people did. Even my age, growin’ up, I couldn’t do it. I wasn’t comfortable. And so I realized that God had set me apart for a special service, and I wanted to really be like the rest of my peers, but I couldn’t. I mean, even if I tried, He wouldn’t let me rest well. 00:18:00So I finally had to say, “Okay, Lord. I mean, I might be different. It doesn’t matter what folks may say, but this is who you want me to be, so I have to be yours.” And I know that without a shadow of a doubt. And so it took a while to just say, “Yes, Lord, I will really do what you set for me to do,” ’cause I thought—I really tried to get around it. I decided to go to school, and get this nice PhD, and go and get them, and He allowed me to go get this PhD at the age of 70, and I was like, okay, I got it now, I’m fine. And me and God, I was reading—and this was, again, on a Tuesday—I was riding down West Street on a Tuesday morning, and it’s like He got in the car with me. And I heard it just as clear as a bell: “You have only just begun.” And I’m like, “Uh, what you talkin’ ’bout, God?” [Laughter.] ’Cause 00:19:00I know his voice. I mean, really. And I argued with God for a whole block, and finally I said, “Okay, Lord, I got it.” And the minute that I said, “I got it,” He left me alone. But then I knew. So I wound up in Wesley, in the Seminary, so that’s where I am getting equipped so that I can truly do what he wants me to do. God has really been good to me. He has spared me. He’s done so much, so I owe Him so much, and I would never, ever pay him for what He’s done, but I have to keep doin’ it. So I just be tellin’ my story, and I just have to tell my story. I can’t help it. I have to tell my story.

MS: That’s great. Tell me a little bit about your work life.

LG: Oh, gosh, I’ve done so many things. I literally worked 27 years for BellSouth Telephone Company, and when I started workin’ for ’em it wasn’t BellSouth; it was South Central Bell. And I was one of the first, among 00:20:00some of the first Blacks that started to work. And I remember that; it was in 1969. And [inaudible] that I was in a place where folks were used to seeing people look like me, and it was okay. But I was there to stay. You know, I had to let them know, you know, like, I’m here to stay. And so, yeah, we met with prejudice. And I was a long-distance operator for four years, and we had to relieve each other, you know, when you went on break. And so I remember this time, very—I can’t forget it—because I got up, and I remember this young woman, this white woman, relieved me, and when I got up I couldn’t help but notice she wiped the seat, and she wiped off the space where I was seated. I mean, there somethin’ wrong with me or somethin’? Ain’t nothin’ wrong with me. And so I lived though that. And I just had to teach them how to respect Black folk, ’cause I wasn’t goin’ nowhere. And 00:21:00I think once they saw I wasn’t goin’ anyplace, they sorta lightened up.

But I know I remember—I took a test, and I was goin’—there was opportunity to get another job in an office. Took this test. Little white woman administered the test, mind you. And so she administered the test, and I didn’t pass the first time, so she said. And so she said to me, “From the looks of it, you will never pass this test.” And I mean, really? I didn’t say anything to her, but inside of me, I’ll show you. In two weeks I was back, took the test, and this same woman had to call me and congratulate me. And I chuckled. “Hm. Thank you very much, but don’t tell me what I can’t do, ’cause there ain’t nothin’ wrong with my brain. I 00:22:00can do whatever anybody else can do.” And so I kept doin’ this.

So I think I broke some barriers in my work life, and I made it better for those that came along behind, because after I’d worked for four years as a long-distance operator, I went to the accounting department. There again, I was the first, me, and the rest of us white. And when I would walk in the room in the morning, I could fell all of those eyes on me. And my seat was very to the front, really back, my desk. And I could feel those eyes. I said, “Good morning,” and nobody would open their mouth. And I turned around and said, “I said good morning.” Then they understood. And so I had a meeting with the supervisor, because I had to have a talk with her, and I said, “You better talk to them,” I 00:23:00said, “’cause I ain’t goin’ nowhere. I’m just like a bad wind: I ain’t goin’ nowhere. I’m here to stay. So when I walk in the office, and I say, ‘Good morning,’ I expect for somebody to respond back.” I said, “I you tell ’em for me, okay?” And so from then on I had no problem with them. And so they had a coffee club, they say, and so they was talkin’ about, “We have the coffee—da, da, da, da.” And I said to them, “Well, I just wanna let y’all know I don’t drink no coffee and I don’t make no coffee, so if you want your coffee, you make your own coffee.” And I had help ’em [ph]. And I’ve always been very verbal about how I felt, but I kept my cool.

And so I worked for the phone company for 27 years exactly. So I retired. Wasn’t retirement age, but I retired, ’cause I had the service, and I was there—and so I remember one of those little white ladies said to me, “You gonna retire? 00:24:00What you gonna do?” And I said, “Oh, honey, my father’s rich,” I said, “and I’m always gonna be able to do somethin’.” And she says, “I didn’t realize you had a rich daddy.” I said, “Honey, my daddy that I have, he’s everybody’s daddy. He got everything.” At that point, “Oh. Hope you get it [ph].” And that’s what I had to do. And from then, I never stopped workin’, and I never had a problem. I retired from BellSouth in 1996, August 24th, but I actually went to work for Jackson Public Schools. I just went to work for Jackson Public Schools, same month, August, and I worked for them until I got tired and went to do something else. I went to Hinds Community College and I taught for nine years there. And I’ve done everything. I went to Liberia, stayed for a whole ten months over there, doin’ education over there. 00:25:00That was a learning experience for me, another culture, but I will never forget it, because it was wonderful. And so children over there eager to learn, and I’m like, oh my God, I wish they were that eager at home, and that was because they didn’t have the things that our children have. [inaudible] our kids now [ph], I just wish that they understood how blessed we are to have all of this at our fingertips.

And I went back to school. Nobody think about at the age of 68, I decided I’d do a PhD program. Oh, everybody thought I had lost my mind. You know, I’m goin’ to school to get a doctor’s degree at the age of 68? Yeah, and I did. And folks was like, “She’ll never make it.” They don’t know me. They don’t know me, uh-huh. And so in 2010 I completed that course [ph], because I had the thirst to learn. So God is good, and He’s kept my mind sane, 00:26:00and I’m so thankful. I can’t think of another—every morning I get up, you know, I have a good mind. And I just praise Him. That’s a good place to be. And so I completed that, and so I’m finishin’ seminary May, gonna graduate from that. Everybody said, “What’s next?” I say, “Only God knows what’s next, but I will be busy for Him for the rest of my days.” And that’s what I love. It’s His calling of my life, and I’m kinda like that song says: “A charge to keep I have, and a God to glorify.” That’s who I am [ph].

MS: Great, great. Okay. Is there anything else you wanna tell me?

LG: Well, I just want to just tell whoever gets a chance to read or listen that follow your dream. Matters not what others may say, but follow your dream. But be sure that it’s your dream. 00:27:00MS: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Great, great. Very good. Okay, thank you so much.

LG: You are so welcome.

MS: Okay, all right. [END OF INTERVIEW]