Bernice H. Wiliams

MATTIE STEVENS: Today’s date is February 27th, and I’m Mattie Stevens. I will be interviewing Ms. Bernice Williams today, and we are at the Smith Robertson Museum. Now, okay.

BERNICE H. WILLIAMS: My name is Bernice Williams—that’s B-E-R-N-I-C-E W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S—and I am the granddaughter of Gertha Shearrill—that’s G-E-R-T-H-A S-H-E-A-R-R-I-L-L.

MS: Very good. Okay, well, 00:01:00tell us about you first, Ms. Bernice: your upbringing, your schooling, church, family, work. Just talk to me about you first.

BHW: Well, I am the oldest granddaughter of Gertha and Paul [sp?] Shearrill, and I grew up in their household, which I am a child of theirs. I mostly lived with them. You know, my mother was working, and I lived with my grandmother. And I know everything that really went on in the household. [Laughs.] MS: Very good. Okay. Well, talk to me. You grew up there, and you went to school. Where’d you go to school?

BHW: I went to Sacred Heart, St. Elizabeth my 00:02:00early years. I went to Virgin Mary Elementary School the first years.

MS: And where are they located? Is that in—?

BHW: That’s up in the Farmhaven area. And my middle years, I went to Farmhaven Elementary, and my high school I finished at Velma Ware Jackson High School.

MS: Okay. I’m familiar with Velma Ware. [Laughter.] Okay. So did you attend church with your grandmother, or— BHW: Yes, I did. I attended Virgin Mary Baptist Church with my grandmother.

MS: Okay, okay. Now, what about work life?

BHW: Well, I didn’t work until I got married. I moved to Chicago, and I got married, and I worked there.

MS: Okay, okay, all right. What kind of work did you do?

BHW: I worked as a switchboard operator at a children’s hospital, and as a 00:03:00 receptionist.

MS: Okay. And is that where you also retired?

BHW: Yes.

MS: Okay, very good. And then you came back, and now you’re the record keeper for the—or have you always been the record keeper for the family?

BHW: I think I have. No one remembers anything anymore. [Laughter.] MS: Okay. So tell me about the records that you kept, your sisters and brothers and— BHW: I don’t have any brothers or sisters. I just have cousins, uncles. I grew up with my aunt’s household, which—this is my uncle, which is like a brother. His mother was like a sister. And I have another aunt, some aunts that was like my sisters, so I grew up with them.

MS: All right. And this is Mr. Shearrill.

BHW: Right.

MS: Which first name is Shearrill?

HENRY CLAY SHEARRILL: Henry Clay Shearrill.

MS: Henry Clay Shearrill. Okay, all right. Okay. And the records that 00:04:00you’ve kept, tell me about those.

BHW: For the—?

MS: For the midwife.

BHW: For the midwife? Well, over the years, you know, you grow up, and being a curious teenager, and young girl, you know, they never told you where babies came from.

MS: What did they tell you? [Laughs.] BHW: Came out of a log. And I always thought Grandma brought that baby in that little suitcase she had. And we didn’t know no better. [Laughs.] See, they didn’t teach no sex education or things like that in school, so they always told, “Child, you don’t need to know nothin’ about that.” [Laughs.] So we always looked until, you know, you grow up, and you learn where they were from, and how they was made. [Laughter.] MS: So tell me about your grandmother.

BHW: My 00:05:00grandmother was a very stern woman. She didn’t play. But she was a very good woman. And the job of being midwife, I have never, never seen anyone that loved that job like she did. She was devoted.

MS: Okay, very good.

BHW: Very devoted. The things that she would go through: rain, sleet, snow, mud, and all of that, walking fifteen miles? She would do that.

MS: Did she ever have any travel or assistance, wagon—?

BHW: Well, sometime—we lived, like, on bad roads, mud, and cars couldn’t get down the road, so 00:06:00they had to walk. They only could drive so far. But they did have wagons, that a lot of people came to get her in a wagon. There are a lot of people that came to get her on horseback, and a lot of times she would walk. People would drive part of the way in their cars, and then walk the rest of the way to pick her up.

MS: Okay. So what I’m hearing you say is she always went to deliver. When they came to get her— BHW: She went to deliver when they came to get her. I don’t care if it was stormin’, sleet, snow, whatever, what time of night. She got up.

MS: Oh, boy. Give us her name, again?

BHW: Her name is Gertha Shearrill.

MS: Bertha Shearrill.

BHW: Gertha, G.

MS: Gertha. Okay, great.

BHW: Gertha. G-E-R-T-H-A.

MS: Great, okay. All right. And what kind of pay did she get? [Laughter.] BHW: The pay that she got, 00:07:00I remember, started out with five dollars. Part of ’em didn’t pay that. Then it went up to eight dollars. A lot of ’em couldn’t pay that. Then it went up to ten. A lot of ’em didn’t pay that, and a lot of ’em paid by a pig, a chicken, a pail of molasses, and things like that.

MS: Yes. [Laughter.] Okay, yeah. But they were so dedicated, these midwives, it didn’t matter to them.

BHW: She was a dedicated person. And a lot of times, before they knocked for her, she would say, “You owe me from the last one.” “Well, Ms. Gertha, I’ll pay you.” She said, “But you owe me from the last one,” [laughs] but she still would get up and go.

MS: Okay. Okay. And did 00:08:00she ever take anybody with her when she went?

BHW: Oh, no. No, no, no.

MS: She’d go out by herself.

BHW: Other than her leaving there with that little bag, I never knew what she did.

MS: And what color was her bag, and what did she have in that bag? Did you ever get a chance to peek in?

BHW: Mm-hmm [affirmative], every week. [Laughter.] MS: Okay. Tell us about it.

BHW: You know what a little chess thing, with the chess pieces or things in it?

MS: Yeah, yeah, right, right.

BHW: It was a little brown, strappy bag. She had umbilical cord scissors, this little thing— MS: Okay, hold that up for me, because I don’t have that in the picture. Now, that’s the cord?

BHW: That’s the cord.

MS: Okay, so that’s like a string that you would tie around— BHW: That’s what she cut the cable off, you 00:09:00know. These are the scissors.

MS: Okay. Okay, you can hold those up. Yeah, okay, very good.

BHW: And this is the little thing that she would keep it in. And she also had some pHisoHex soap. And the only other thing in that bag was some—I guess she made, like, little squares of something like gauze. I will never know what she used it for, but she would have that in there. She would have about 10 or 15 in there, and her book. That was all in there.

MS: Now, the book, was that her guidebook?

BHW: This was her book of birth records.

MS: Oh, okay, okay. All right, very good. And open it up for me and just let me see the inside. Okay.

BHW: Let me see if it’s upright.

MS: I’m 00:10:00gon’ zero in on it and just see if we can get anything. Hold it up just a little bit more. Okay. Yeah, I can see a little writing. Okay, that’s good, that’s good. Okay. All right.

BHW: So a lot of the records are missing. I don’t know if she threw them away in the younger years, but I know she started in 1940 or ’41. I know in ’41 she was working, ’cause she delivered me. And it’s some years in between, and I’d say basically from ’40, ’41, ’42, ’43, up until about ’45, there are some records missing.

MS: Okay, so she stopped working in about—?

BHW: Oh, no, she stopped in ’70.

MS: Okay, okay. Very good.

BHW: She 00:11:00stopped in ’70, but those records, I don’t know—I know she always had books, but probably they got thrown away.

MS: Okay. Now, tell me about just, like, one of those books. Would that be just one person, or would it have several names in it?

BHW: Oh, no. No, no, no. All of this is different— MS: A list of people.

BHW: Right.

MS: And what did she have in there? Look in there and tell me. It’s like a name and an address, or—?

BHW: She got name, she got—it’s place of birth; the child’s name; the father’s name, if there was a father existed; and the mother’s name, maiden name; and how many pregnancies she had; and how much the baby weighed; and 00:12:00their age; and the address of the person where she was delivering the baby; and if the baby was a girl or boy; the date of birth; and the race of the child; and that’s about— MS: All of that information would be used to fill out that birth certificate.

BHW: All that, uh-huh [affirmative], right.

MS: Beautiful. Okay. Okay, very good. All right. That’s good, ’cause she’d have to send the birth certificate in, or— BHW: She would have to send the birth certificate in to Canton, and when she—you know, we were in a rural area, so once a week, once every—you know, when she got a birth, she would mail it in, fill it—she would have a different— MS: Form. 00:13:00BHW: —form to mail, which is just one copy. She would mail it to the Health Department in Canton.

MS: Right, very good. And it’s got her record. That’s awesome. Okay.

BHW: Yes, and she was also—I would say she was licensed, but she was never— HCS: Yeah, she was licensed.

BHW: She was licensed, but I’ve never— MS: Seen the license.

BHW: —seen the license, because every month she would go to the Health Department in Canton, and classes, complete those classes. She had to complete those classes.

MS: Very good. Okay. So, now, what’s in that big book over there?

BHW: This is part—I guess this book is a 1968—that was after I left home—so I guess they— MS: Okay, so the same kind of information?

BHW: Same kinda book, uh-huh [affirmative].

MS: Okay. Okay. All 00:14:00right, very good. Okay. Do you know—? Well, she took you to church, right?

BHW: Yes.

MS: So was she active in her church, or— BHW: Very much so.

MS: —the community? Talk a little bit about that.

BHW: Yes. Well, she was a lady that she only had a, what, fifth, sixth— MS: Grade education?

BHW: I doubt she had a fifth or sixth grade, but she thought she was a college graduate.

MS: Right, and everybody else probably did, too, huh? [Laughter.] BHW: You thought she was a college graduate, but she only made it till about the fifth or sixth grade. And you couldn’t outdo her in reading. She loved to read, and she read things that came into the home. And she liked to visit people, different churches. So we visited almost everybody’s church in the community at that time.

MS: Right, right, 00:15:00right. You had probably a lot of those events where you had the food on the— BHW: Right. [Laughter.] MS: —boxes.

BHW: Right, so she was a very outgoing person that loved to mingle with people.

MS: Okay. Did she hold any office in the church?

BHW: No. I don’t think she held any office, but she almost ran the church. [Laughter.] MS: Okay. There’s usually one of those. Okay, so—and usually they become so well-known and well-respected in a community, people look up to ’em. Was she that person that people— BHW: She was that type of person.

MS: Mm-hmm [affirmative], so people would come to her to get information, or— BHW: Right.

MS: Yeah, okay.

BHW: She was that type of person.

MS: Very good, very good. Okay. And you told me about the years, right. Did 00:16:00she ever—say, like, in the ’70s—did she ever learn to drive or get a car? [Laughter.] BHW: When did she drive?

HCS: My dad bought a 1953 GMC pickup in ’53, and I was the driver. I was 15 at the time, so I was the first kid in the neighborhood got a driver’s license, at the age of 15, because couldn’t nobody else drive in my family. So when I turned 18, I went in the military, so she had to learn how to drive after I left and went in the military.

MS: Okay, very good. All right.

HCS: My daddy never drove.

MS: He never drove?

HCS: He never drove nothin’ but a pair of mules. [Laughs.] MS: So then, Ms. Williams, was she able to drive to some of her—?

BHW: Oh, no. No, no. They always provided transportation for her, or, you know, whatever transportation they had.

MS: Very good. Okay. All right. That’s 00:17:00good. Now, the home: did your grandparents own their own home?

BHW: Yes, they did.

MS: Okay. Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about that situation?

BHW: Well, when she went on her trips, I can remember—or my aunts, they would have get up and make the biscuits, ’cause my granddaddy couldn’t do anything. He couldn’t boil water. [Laughter.] MS: So I’m thinkin’ he was a farmer, then. He did the work on the farm.

BHW: He was a farmer. And they would have to get up and make the biscuits, and do all of the things that she would do if she was gone for the two or three days. After they left, before I went to school, I had to get up and do all of that, see that he got something for breakfast.

MS: Right. Right. Okay. Very good, very good. So you indicated that she would 00:18:00stay gone two or three days, and as long as the mother needed her, right?

BHW: As long as the mother needed her.

MS: Okay. Would she provide services for the mother after she had left, if she needed her?

BHW: No, not that I can think of.

MS: What about babies? Were there any born deformed, or ill, or any deaths that you— BHW: Now, she’s had a lot of premature babies, and she had a lot of—she’s never lost a baby, just say, per se—’cause I asked her this before she died—she’s never lost a baby, just lost the baby. She always lost the baby to stillborn. It either was a stillborn baby, or something happened before the baby was born. Because 00:19:00you have a lot of premature babies, but they lived, and one is, for example—and I don’t know if you know Reverend David Jackson. Sing? David was a premature baby.

MS: Is he— HCS: What?

BHW: Yes.

MS: Is he the one that sings on television? There is a Mr. Jackson that sings on one of the— BHW: He play the piano, music teacher and play the piano. From Canton. He and his wife sing.

MS: Oh, okay.

BHW: Uh-huh [affirmative].

MS: Okay. Yeah.

BHW: And he was a premature baby. But she had a lot of babies that were premature.

MS: Premature, and she would help the mother with the feeding and— BHW: I guess she would, like, you know, coach them what to do.

MS: ’Cause she didn’t have any medication that she gave the mother or anything like that.

BHW: No, she didn’t have anything. Mm-mm [negative].

MS: Okay. Okay, 00:20:00so we’ve talked about her—that’s the only work she ever did, right?

BHW: Well, farmed with my granddad. That’s all.

MS: Okay. Okay. All right. Can you think of anything else about her that—any of her relatives, or did she have other sisters? We know she had a son, because you—granddaughter.

BHW: Well, she [clears throat] was the mother of, what, seven girls?

HCS: Mm-hmm [affirmative], six or seven.

BHW: Seven girls and one boy. She was the mother—well, really, she was the mother of nine children. Ten.

MS: Okay. She raised some other children, including you?

BHW: Oh, no, just— MS: These were her— BHW: Mostly at—uh-huh [affirmative] .

MS: That she birthed?

BHW: She was the mother. She had—her firstborn, I think, died 00:21:00when he was an infant, and she had two more daughters to die.

MS: Okay. Was that before you?

BHW: That was before me.

MS: Okay, okay, all right. Okay. ’Cause I was gonna ask you about her midwife. [Laughter.] Do you know—? Well, she got that training. Was she working before she started takin’ those classes? ’Cause I think in the ’20s then— BHW: I could not tell you, because she told me—I know she delivered me, and when I was born in ’41, and I don’t know who she took her classes from, or who started her in that field, but that’s how she got started. So I don’t know if she got started in the first of ’41—I mean, first in ’40. But that’s when she started.

MS: Okay, 00:22:00okay, very good. How old was she when she passed? Do either of you know?

BHW: Ninety.

MS: Oh, good. Okay. And she worked up until when? What year?

BHW: She worked up until ’70, I think, because that’s when my grandfather start gettin’ sick, and she had to be home with him.

MS: Okay, okay. Very good, very good. Okay, so we know the county was Madison and Lee, right?

BHW: She lived in Madison County, but she would go to Leake County. It depends on if someone moved to Scott County. She was over there. She was in mostly Madison and Leake and Scott County.

MS: Right, okay, okay. And she went where people knew her and called her.

BHW: Right.

MS: Okay. All right. So we’ve got her location, the years she worked, and age, and heritage. Okay. 00:23:00Can you think of anything else you wanna share?

HCS: She known [ph], you know, [inaudible] she did, obviously [ph], [inaudible] her to do that. You remember that?

BHW: What?

HCS: [inaudible]? Did she—? [inaudible]— BHW: Oh, she loved to cook. She really loved to cook.

HCS: Oh, yeah, I loved her cooking, too. [Laughter.] MS: Was she a good cook?

HCS: Yeah.

BHW: She loved to cook, and she just—she was the type of lady that you could come and say, “I’m hungry.” You didn’t have to say it anymore.

MS: She’d get up and go in there?

BHW: She’d go in there and fix something for you to eat. That’s the type of lady she— HCS: And the preacher would—she’d feed the preacher if— MS: What about the preachers?

BHW: Feed the preacher first. [Laughter.] You know how that go.

MS: I know about that.

HCS: The best parts [inaudible]. [Laughter.] 00:24:00MS: I’ll give you a little story off camera about that.

BHW: But she loved to cook, and, you know, she was a person that she was right there, side by side with my grandfather. Whatever he did, she was right there with him.

MS: Okay. Did she have any special dishes, now, since you’re talkin’ about that cookin’ BHW: Okay— CLINTON JOHNSON, JR.: Cakes.

BHW: What? Cakes?

CJJ: Lemon pie.

BHW: Cake?

MS: Lemon pie, egg pie— CJJ: Egg pie, yeah, everything. You know, we had the—it was a farm, and we had cows. We had chickens.

MS: Wait, I need you on camera. [Laughter.] You can sit right there. I can pick you up. And with that many boys, I know she had to do some— BHW: She only had one boy.

MS: Oh, one boy?

BHW: That one boy, and the rest was girls, ’cause she had one son that 00:25:00was her oldest child, Frederick [sp?]. He died a infant. Then she had two more children to die in infancy, I think.

MS: And then just this one boy.

BHW: Nellie [sp?] and Evelyn.

HCS: Yes, yeah.

MS: Okay. And your name, again?

HCS: Henry Clay Shearrill.

MS: Henry?

HCS: Clay Shearrill.

MS: Clay Shearrill. Okay, all right. And Mr. Johnson?

CJJ: I am Clinton Johnson, Jr. My mother was one of my grandmother’s daughters, one of the nine daughters. Her name was Lennie [sp?], Lennie Johnson, Lennie Shearrill Johnson. I remember my grandmother—I remember her cookin’. [Laughter.] MS: Okay. All right, talk to me.

CJJ: She had stopped, you know, doin’ midwife duties when I was old enough to know what was goin’ on, but I believe she brought me into the world— BHW: Yes.

CJJ: —and a couple of my siblings, as well. But 00:26:00my grandmother, yeah, she could cook. I mean, I loved her blackberry pie. She could cook the chocolate pie, the egg pie. I mean, I just, you know—I was just excited about when we visited her house. I was excited about that. You know, my granddad, he was a quiet kinda guy. He would just, you know, kick back. He loved to see us eat. He loved to see us eat, and my grandmother did, too. But she can cook. She would take us—they had a large farm, had about 80, over 80 acres, and she would take us, me and my siblings. We would go blackberry huntin’, plum hunting, and, you know, we’d pick the blackberries, and bring ’em back, and she would cook the blackberry pie. We had the cows. I learned—you know, we would churn the milk. Churn the milk, and get the butter off the milk, and put it on your biscuits for breakfast. It was just a great time. But she was a very stern woman, like Bernice said. She 00:27:00was very stern. She was very religious. I could see her in the church on Sunday mornings. You know, she would take me to church. I would kinda—you know, I would kinda hang out with her a little bit more than my siblings would. She would take me to church with her, and, you know, she would sing that song, sing those church songs.

MS: She had a special one that you remember?

CJJ: I remember—now, they had this song— BHW: [singing] “I stretch my hand to Thee.” [Laughter.] CJJ: There you go, there you go. And then, you know, in an old Baptist church, they had the song, but there were no words. They would just hum, you know? And everybody knew the tone, the right hummin’ to do, and then somebody would break out and say, “I heard a voice!” And they would say—[Hums.] [Laughter.] You know how they would—?

BHW: And she could really sing, now, you know.

HCS: Didn’t have no music.

CJJ: Right.

BHW: All they have to do is say— MS: Didn’t have to have any music.

BHW: —a hymn. She would start a hymn.

CJJ: Yes, yes, mm-hmm.

BHW: And, like, she delivered all of his siblings, except two.

CJJ: Veronica, 00:28:00my youngest sister, and— BHW: And Mike. I mean— CJJ: Mike, yeah. Mike, yeah.

BHW: Mike. She didn’t deliver Mike.

MS: Okay. All right. Okay.

CJJ: Yes, yes.

MS: [Laughs.] Okay. Can you think of any other things? Did she have any antics, anything that you knew not to do, you know, where there’s some things that she just—[Laughter.] CJJ: Well, one thing we—me and my little brother, Emmett [sp?], my youngest brother, we used to go and stay up there all the time. We always wanted a bicycle for Christmas. And, you know, years went by. We would always ask for a bicycle, but we never got that bicycle. So we thought we were workin’ pretty good towards gettin’ that bicycle. One Christmas, we was doin’ everything good. We stayed up there. We’d done all our chores and everything. And we did somethin’ that she didn’t like, and 00:29:00she told us that she was gon whoop us, and we ran. And she didn’t run after us. But when we ran, she said, “I was gonna buy you all a bicycle, but y’all ran and wouldn’t take this whippin’.” Man, we wanted to go back so badly to get that whippin’, [laughter] but she said, “No, don’t come back now! No!” BHW: As we now see, she’s a very stern woman. What she said, you better do. If she told you don’t do something, whew!

CJJ: Yes, yeah, yeah.

MS: Okay. Now, was there a rattan switch? Did she plat the switches?

BHW: Peach tree.

MS: Peach tree? [Laughter.] HCS: She was left-handed.

CJJ: Yes.

MS: She was left-handed.

HCS: She was left-handed. She knew how to use it, too.

MS: Oh, wow.

BHW: Then send you out to get the switch.

MS: Oh, that’s right. That’s right. That’s right. Now, did she plat ’em?

BHW: Huh?

MS: Did she plat ’em, the peach tree?

BHW: No, no, no, no.

MS: Okay, you got one.

BHW: You know, you 00:30:00go out there and get the—you know, you feel it— MS: You got the right one.

BHW: —and you do this, come back. That one not strong enough. [Laughter.] Then you got to go and find another one.

MS: Okay. That sound just like the grandma— BHW: And she could tell when you did something. You didn’t have to tell her. She knew it. She knew if she came in that house and something was moved that you wasn’t supposed to be messing with, she knew exactly that you had moved. And back then, you didn’t say—she said, “Did y’all bother such-and-such a thing?” You didn’t say, “No, ma’am.” “No.” [Laughter.] “Somebody bothered—” “No, we didn’t bother it.” “Somebody moved it.” [Laughter.] She 00:31:00knew exactly if you touched something. “Don’t go in the sugar.” [Laughter.] “Don’t go in the chocolate.” MS: Sound like somebody went in the sugar.

HCS: [Points at Bernice.] CJJ: And don’t go in the Frigidaire.

MS: Don’t go into—[Laughter.] CJJ: Not the refrigerator, but the Frigidaire.

MS: The Frigidaire, yeah.

BHW: That’s right.

CJJ: Don’t open it. Don’t stand in that refrigerator.

BHW: And you stand up there and says, “No.” You wouldn’t say, “No, ma’am.” “No.” [Laughter.] But those were good days, though.

HCS: She had told us to stay out of her chocolate, and we slipped back in it, and from her complexion, it was all around our mouth, and so she said, “Who been in the chocolate?” “I don’t know.” And it’s all around our mouth. [Laughter.] I told her, “You [inaudible] color [inaudible].” [Laughter.] MS: So did you get a whippin’ that day? Did you get a whippin’ that day?

HCS: Yes, we did.

BHW: Probably 00:32:00 did.

HCS: Yes, we did.

BHW: I’ve gotten so many whippin’s, it was just take your whippin’ and go on. Yeah, so many whippin’s, but those were, you know—just looking back on it, you know, as her being a midwife, it’s no way I could have gone through the things that she went through as far as traveling and the weather, the transportation, staying at homes that a lot of times really didn’t have food in the house to eat, and that’s the truth. It’s not being mean, but a lot of families didn’t have food and stuff in the house. And she went and stayed—if the mother was in labor, she did not leave. She never lost a mother, and she never lost a child, you 00:33:00know, as far as they were born stillborn, but she never lost any.

MS: Right. Okay.

HCS: She told me if they had any kinda life in ’em, she got it and brought it out of ’em. And I could just see her with her left hand, slinging’ ’em over. She said she’d just sling ’em and bam.

BHW: Oh, she could hit them with that left hand. [Laughter.] CJJ: But with all of that, with all of the responsibilities, she still raised her family.

BHW: Yeah, she still raised her family.

CJJ: She still took care of the family.

BHW: She did not neglect her family. They would come to get her in church. It didn’t matter. She was at church. If they came and sent somebody in church to get you, she would go. We had to go home.

MS: Oh, that’s dedication.

BHW: She was really a dedicated woman.

MS: Do you have any pictures of her at home, or you have 00:34:00some pictures?

BHW: It’s right here.

MS: Oh, okay.

CJJ: Yeah. Yeah, we got some better pictures, but this is one of the local supervisors recognized her. That was back in, what, 1980? Somethin’.

MS: Okay.

CJJ: Yeah, I got a picture—I got a copy of that picture I’ll leave with you.

MS: Okay. All right. Let’s see.

F1: My thing got full [ph].

BHW: Oh, it did?

F1: It wouldn’t let me do any— MS: Wouldn’t let you take any more—? Okay. All right. I need to probably get my—are you takin’ that one back?

CJJ: Yes, I got a copy over here.

MS: You got one that you want to leave with me, okay.

CJJ: Yeah, if this is a good copy.

MS: Now, you have records of—? Okay, thank you so much. Ms. Williams, thank you so much. I’m gon now—we can darken this [ph]. Okay. [END OF INTERVIEW]